Questions!

[IvoCarog]

Ok, so I've just started learning Gáidhlig* and I'm sure that I'm going to have quite a few questions along the way - I'm going to post my questions here and if somebody's able (and willing) to answer them I'll really appreciate that
Of course since I'm a beginner my questions may seem a little bit stupid or naive but I hope I'll improve my Gáidhlig with the time...

So let the questions begin

Could somebody explain me the difference (if any) between "dha/do" and "gu"?! As I understand it, they all mean "to"?!

Thanks in advance

*btw does somebody know how can i put the accent mark the other way?

[akerbeltz]

Various ways... I think there's a thread on here too but this one I know - it's in Gaelic but should be obvious http://www.faclair.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5

do - at its heart means "into" but in conjunction with various verbs and nouns it has many different ways of being translated.

gu - at its heart means "towards" but again, it depends on the context.

The difference between do/dha depends on what exactly you had in mind.

1) do/dha as register variations mean the same thing; dha is used by many speakers in conjunction with the definite article: dhan/dha na. It is also used INSTEAD of do as a means of avoiding the morphophonemic changes do causes: do dh'Ailean vs dha Ailean (same meaning). This is a relatively recent thing and frowned upon by some people. My advice is, it's ok in spoken Gaelic but avoid it in formal writing.

2) if you meant dha as the 3rd person conjugated form i.e. dhomh (to me), dhut (to you), dha (to him)...

Let me know if that wasn't what you meant!

[GunChleoc]

Welcome and ask away - that's what we're here for

*btw does somebody know how can i put the accent mark the other way?

See this thread:

http://www.foramnagaidhlig.net/foram/vi ... &t=32#p235

The first two posts are for the old version of this software, so just ignore them. With our new software, if you can't find a way to type it directly use this button: ?

[IvoCarog]

...thanks to both of you for the help with the accent mark actually i've been using the US International keybord for long time just for the [á] and [ä] but didn't know that i can do [à] with it too

as fot "dha/do" and "gu", i understand it better now but just to make it clearer (for myself ) let's take these 2 sentences:

"dha taigh / do thaigh"

"gu taigh"

Both are translated as "to a house" (at least in my course) but is there any difference/nuance in the meaning?! does "gu" indicate just the movement towards the house and "dha/do" implies that we go into the house...or something like that...?!...

[Seonaidh]

As AB says, it's no always easy to tell the difference between "do" and "gu". For instance, at one end of Wombatsville is a sign saying "Fàilte gu Wombatsville", while at the other is a sign saying "Fàilte do Wombatsville". It's a bit less problematic when there's a "the" involved, e.g. you might see "Fàilte do Na Hearadh", "Fàilte don Òban" or "Fàilte don Ghearasdan", but I never recollect seeing the likes of "Fàilte chun nan Hearadh", "Fàilte chun an Òbain" or "Fàilte chun a' Ghearasdan". Generally, "do" (and its variants "dha", "a dh'" etc.) is like "i" in Welsh ("Croeso i Loegr"), while "gu" is more like "at" ("gyrrais lythyr at Ieuan" - "chuir mi lìtir gu Eòghann" - "I sent a letter tae Ewan"). However, no lesser mortals than Run Rig wrote the song "Tìr an Airm", with its line "Fàilte gu Tìr an Airm", so trying to be too rigid about "into" and "towards" isn't on - the divisions and variety acceptable in each language will be subtly different.

Cùm a' dol!

[akerbeltz]

does "gu" indicate just the movement towards the house and "dha/do" implies that we go into the house...or something like that...?!...

Spot on! That's the basic idea anyway. As Seonaidh has mentioned, in practice this may be more messy. For example, both the following are good, idiomatic Gaelic:
Fàilte dhan dùthaich!
Fàilte gun Òban!

You could argue that when someone says that, you have to be in the country and that to see the sign in Oban you don't have to be IN Oban...

But if you had a pair like:
Chuir mi e dhan bhogsa.
Chuir mi e gun bhogsa.
The first implies it's now inside the box, the second it's just nearer the box.

Go with the basic idea of that and play the rest by ear I'd suggest.

[IvoCarog]

ok, thanks for the clarifications...more questions coming soon

[IvoCarog]

double post

I was doing an exercise and I had to tr*nsl*t* this sentence:
"She was in school however he was not" and I autometically translated it - "Bha i anns an sgoil ach cha robh e ann" with an "ann" but the answer given was without an "ann". So does that mean that using "ann" in situations like this is not neccessary?
For example: if i want to say "There was a pen" can i just say "Bha peann" or should i say "Bha peann ann"?!

[Seonaidh]

Well, I'd usually stick an "ann" in, cos it looks - or sounds - a bit bare without it. As for "there was a pen", sbo "Bha peann" is OK, but what about "A pen was there"? Then you'd be into something like "Bha peann an sin / an siud"

[An Gobaire]

double post

I was doing an exercise and I had to tr*nsl***** this sentence:
"She was in school however he was not" and I autometically tr*nsl***** it - "Bha i anns an sgoil ach cha robh e ann" with an "ann" but the answer given was without an "ann". So does that mean that using "ann" in situations like this is not neccessary?
For example: if i want to say "There was a pen" can i just say "Bha peann" or should i say "Bha peann ann"?!

It looks like it's necessary at least once in the sentence, but not necessary twice in the same sentence.

[faoileag]

All my instincts are crying out for 'esan'!

The point of the sentence is a contrast, surely, so why not ise and esan?

The ending lacks any emphasis with only 'e'.

'Ann' would also sound strange to me without 'esan': she's in the school, but he's not present (in the place where the speaker is, not necessarily the school). 'Sgoil' is feminine anyway, which would lead to 'innte' (not 'ann') for 'in it', literally.

And if you are saying something is there/present/available, again it is too weak without 'ann' or something else.

Tha peann ann - there's a pen here/around/available for us; there's at least a pen here, if nothing else.
Seo peann - here's a pen ; this is a pen (unlikely but possible!)
Tha peann air a' bhòrd - there's a pen on the table.

[akerbeltz]

She was in school however he was not

tr*nsl*t**n depends slightly on the emphasis used in English.

She was in school however he was not > Bha ise anns an sgoil ach cha robh esan.
She was in school however he was not > Bha i anns an sgoil ach cha robh esan.

As far as the second ann goes, it's not wrong, just not needed because, as the other have said, it's already covered in a sence by the first anns an. Because it's not expected here, if you DO use it it gives the sentence a slightly different meaning; in this case, the extra ann makes your statement a bit more emphatic, focussing more strongly on the fact that he wasn't there.

Bha ise anns an sgoil ach cha robh esan ann.

A bit like saying in English ... but HE was NOT THERE (using your voice).

Gaelic just doesn't like using intonation for emphasis but instead has a nifty set of other ways of showing emphasis.

Incidentally

Bha i anns an sgoil ach cha robh e ann

without the esan again has a slightly different connotation. Instead of making a simple contrast of "she was there; he wasn't" this carries the flavour of "she was in school (because they had a date... or some other reason) but he didn't show up".

And

Bha peann

is NOT ok. That's not a complete sentence in Gaelic. A statement of existence in Gaelic needs some form of ann.

[IvoCarog]

The point of the sentence is a contrast, surely, so why not ise and esan?

well...because i still haven't covered the emphatic pronouns in my course

[GunChleoc]

That's the trouble, ideally you'd learn everything at once

[akerbeltz]

Ya, just put the multiverse on pause, take 2 years to study hard and then continue