Drink name

[MikeS]

Hello all,

A quick question - is there a Scots Gaelic word for "mead", i.e. the alcoholic drink made from fermented honey?

How would I say something like "Cerridwen's Mead"

Thanks!

[faoileag]

Take your pick, all from Stòr-Dàta online dictionary, link below:

bin (masc) - not in Colin Mark dict.
bior-fhìon (masc) = sting/thorn-wine?
meadh (masc ) = mead (Colin Mark)
mil-dheoch (masc ) = honey-drink
milbhir (masc) - ditto

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/faclair/sbg/lorg.php

Meadh aig Cerridwen (= belonging to her)

Meadh Cerridwen (= her patent)

[neoni]

there is a bunch in the dictionary, i don't know who uses what and where but:

bin
meadh

bior-fhìon
"sting wine"?

mil-dheoch
"sweet drink"?



it would be something like
meadh a' cherridwein

i don't know what cerridwen is so i can't make the genetive, there's no w in gaelic anyway.

[neoni]

ro shloadach

[MikeS]

Thanks all very much - Cerridwen is a female name; in Gaelic, I believe it's something like Cerdaoin - the name comes from the name of the Celtic godess "Cerridwen" who was the mother of the bard "Taleisin".

Mike S

[Seonaidh]

Tha Cuimris agam agus chan eil ainm "Cerridwen" anns a' Chuimris - 's e "Ceridwen" a th' ann. 'S dòcha gur e "am meadh aig Ceridwen" a bhios nas fheàrr airson "medd Ceridwen" na "meadh Ceridwen" (chan eil mi cinnteach mura bheil "Ch" an sin).

Tha ainm "Ceridwyn" anns a' Chuimris cuideachd agus 's e ainm firionn a th' ann (tha aon Cheridwyn am measg na luchd-obraich agam - agus 's e fear a th' ann).

[MikeS]

Thanks Seonaidh,

Yeah, Cerridwen is a Welsh name, but I thought she also had a Gaelic version as well (Ydych chi'n siarad Cymraeg?).

Mike S

[Seonaidh]

Ndw. A chdi? (tha mi duilich, 's e Cuimrish uabhasach colloquial sin). Chan eil "rr" anns a' Chuimris nuair a bheil "r" ron chudthrom, aig eseimplier:- GYrru - dràibheadh; GYrrodd - dhràibh e/i; gyrASom - dhràibh sinn. Ann an "Ceridwen", 's e "cerIDwen" a th' innte. 'S dòcha gur ann à "cariad wen" is "cariad gwyn" (bràmar bàn/geal/fionn) a thàinig "Ceridwen" is "Ceridwyn" ach chan eil mi cinnteach air sin idir.

Wye aye man. And yees? (Sorry, that's rhyw fratiaith ar Gymraeg there). Ye divven't get "rr" in Welsh before the stress, like:- ... Mevvies Ceridwen and Ceridwyn came fro "white/fair lover" but Aa divvent knaa for sure like.

[MikeS]

Sorry, I only speak Welsh "yn typpen bach" - I read and write it, but have no idea what I'm reading most of the time. Unfortunately, my Scot's Gaelic is not much better.

I think the double r in the name is probably an "English" spelling as you say Welsh does not have the 'rr' before a stressed sylable. It's a single 'r' in the Gaelic version of the name too, I just can't for the life of me remember how it's spelt in Gaelic!

Yeah, the last part of the name I'm sure must come from /gwyn/ - 'white' - never thought about the first part though; very possible from 'cariad'.

The Celtic goddess Ceridwen is usually depicted as an old woman and her 'symbol' is a white sow. perhaps the concept of the 'white' part of the name being carried on.

Mike S

[Seonaidh]

Paid a phoeni - na gabh dragh. Chan eil mòran fios agam air diathan Ceilteach. Tha fios agam gun robh Taliesin bàrd eachdrachail, còmhla ris an righ Urien ann an Cathair Luail - nid duwies mo'i fam o. A bheil an leabhar agad - "Canu Taliesin" ("Bàrdachd Thaliesin")?

Fret not. One is not omnisapient regarding the Celtic pantheon. One kens, perforce, that Taliesin was a historical poet, with the king Urbigensis in Luguvallum - no goddess his mum. Art thou possessed of the tome - "Canu Taliesin" ("Taliesin's Poetry")?

[MikeS]

Yep, I think he was a historical figure and, as many famous figues were way back then, attained the status of being incorporated into the Celtic pantheon.

I have seen a few of his poems in some of the books I have but was not aware there was a whole book of his poetry. Is it something that can be ordered at a bookstore or is it more of a historical text?!

Mike S

[Seonaidh]

A Mhicheil,
Chan eil fios agam - chan eil an leabhar sin agam. Ach chunnaic mi e - agus tha e anns an aon cyfres mar "Canu Aneirin" agus tha sin agamsa.
For ye, the trouble would be as the beuk is in Welsh only - and Aa divven't mean beginner's Welsh like. The chap as wrote is was Ifor Williams, aboot 1938. He went through Canu Aneirin wiv a fine toothcomb like, wi lots o notes aboot the reel meanins o tha 11th Century text as came doon to we. But as Aa sayed, it's aal in Welsh. The people as printed ma copy (1978) are Gwasg Prifysgol Cymru. And like Aa sayed, Canu Taliesin is in the same series like.

Seo blas air - Dyma flas ohono:-

Kywyrein kerwyr kywrenhin.
gwlat atvel gochlywet en dilin.
ef lladawd a chymawn a llain
a charnedawr tra gogyhwc gwyr trin.

As toil leat Cuimris le K agus V agus seann fhaclair?

Have fun!

[MikeS]

Och great! My Welsh is just not that good. I have seen "Middle Welsh" which I think is what most of Taleisin's stuff is written in and if I understand the question correctly, yes, 'k' and 'v' were used as the orthography was not yet standardized as it is today.

I have a quick (?) question for you, I'll post it Monday as it;s almost time to be leaving work here! It's to do with a short tr*nsl*t**n of a folktale (about a page long). Looking to have it in Scots and Gaelic - I have a Welsh version, but a second would be nice.

Mike

[Stìophan]

Sorry guys but I have to give my quid's worth here:

Getting Gaelic for Ceridwen is like probably getting Gaelic for Mohammed; i.e. There is none (if there is it's nothing short of a Gaelicisation of 'Ceridwen') so Gaelic for Ceridwen's mead would be literally meadh Ceridwen[/b] (no lenition, as it's a feminine name)

[MikeS]

Stìophan,

Yes, I agree - it is a Welsh name, but it does have a Gaelic form (or perhaps I should say "Gaelicized" form), I've seen it a few times; just can't remember exactly what it was (something like Cerdoin or Cerdaeon).

The Welsh form of the name appears to have been derived from "cerdd" - poetry, and "wen" a form of "gwen" - white, holy.

Mike S